St. John's Wort: Beyond The Depression Herb

Most people think of St. John's Wort, and instantly think, "hey, that's the depression herb." But like most herbs, it has so much more to offer. 

In this episode we go deep on one of herbalism's most underestimated plants, tracing it from ancient Greek medicine and medieval folklore through the Eclectic physicians and all the way to modern clinical use. St. John's Wort was used for centuries for wound healing, nerve pain, sciatica, antiviral actions, and so much more before anyone started knowing it as "the depression herb." This episode is to help open your eyes to the many uses of this powerful plant. 

What's in this episode: 

• The wild mythology of St. John's Wort: evil spirits, devil's needle perforations, and a medieval English folk rhyme 
• Two thousand years of historical use from Dioscorides to Culpeper to the Eclectic physicians, and why depression barely came up until the 1980s 
• St. John's Wort's historical uses for nerve pain, sciatica, shingles, cold sores, and wound healing: how and why it works 
• Its antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal properties and the research behind them 
• Photosensitivity and other contraindications 
• Why freshness matters so much with this herb, and how to tell if your St. John's Wort is going to be effective 
• The Klamath beetle, sunburned New Zealand sheep, and the unintended consequences of biological control 

For full show notes and transcript: eclecticherb.com/blogs/news/st-johns-wort-beyond-the-depression-herb 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The Germany's Commission E added it as being specifically able to help with depressive states. So that's what really put the herb on the map in the 1980s for being the depression herb. And also kind of pigeonholed it into that single use. That everybody knows that they say, oh, St. John's Fort, that's for depression. But what about all the fabulous other uses herb that they used to use it for in history before that time?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Amen to that. Yes. As you opened up with like the way that people will pigeonhole an herb. It's just a darn shame. And it's such a beautiful thing that we get to help open our eyes to like, oh, St. John's port is more than just the depression herb. Hello and welcome to Eclectic Herbal Wisdom, where we share stories from the roots of plant medicine. I'm Mel Mutterspok, clinical herbalist and herbal educator at Eclectic Herb. And I'm Chris Olstedt, herbalist and owner of Eclectic Herb. We are so glad that you're here. Whether you're brewing up your first cup of metal tea or crafting your own complex herbal remedies, this podcast is for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

In each episode, we'll open the pages of Herbal Law from the archives of the incredible Eclectic Library to the living wisdom of today's best herbalists. Together we'll explore how plants have supported people for centuries and how they continue to do so now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

You'll find stories, science, and soulful conversations with other brilliant herbalists, all sharing real-world insights that you can bring into your daily life and your practice.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Because herbal wisdom is timeless and it's meant to be shared.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

So come grow with us as we rediscover the living legacy of the plants. Did you know that St. John's Wart was once thought to ward off evil and dispel demons and evil witches? People would put the flowers above images of saints and Jesus and other religious figures just to ward off evil spirits from them. And it was said if you ever look at the leaf of a St. John's Wart plant, you'll see these tiny little perforations in the leaves. And it was once said that those perforations were caused by the devil stabbing the plant with a tiny little needle. I think that is pretty wild to think about. And another thing to know is that it was thought to protect people from thunder and lightning. And if you didn't know these things, I'm absolutely not surprised. Because most people just think of St. John's Wart as the depression herb. And while it's incredible, absolutely remarkable in the world of depression, there is so much more to St. John's Wart that people are just completely ignoring. And throughout this episode, that's exactly what we're going to talk about. Many of the ways we can use it medicinally today. And of course, as you know it, we will dive deep into the historical uses of St. John's Wart as well, because most of the uses from long ago didn't deal with depression at all.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I completely agree. I think people often try to put herbs into these neat little boxes and they say, this herb for this symptom, that's what it does. But when it gets reduced to just a single symptom, it loses so much of what it does. It's got a bigger picture behind everything. And St. John's War is so much more, it does so many things. And I think it's the perfect example of when humans try to say conveniently, this equals this.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Absolutely. I think that is a hill I will die on. I will, I will be talking about that forever and ever and ever, because it's really truly a shame. Like plants are so powerful. And as a society, we really do like to reduce and minimize what they can do for us. And it's a darn shame. Like the more we learn about one individual plant and how it can help us, or how we may need to use caution around that plant, the more empowered we become as people. So St. John's Ward, again, is definitely one of those herbs that he everybody thinks of as the depression herb for its incredible antidepressant effects, which we'll talk about inside of this episode. But the reality is that it truly is so much more than that. It has some very potent antiviral properties to it, specifically for things like the herpes virus or shingles. It is amazing for nerve pain. I have used it countless times, topically and internally for various kinds of nerve pain. I have helped people with backaches and leg pains and other kinds of things in those ways. I've used it as a wound healer topically. It's also got a nice bit of astringency that can be really helpful in the cases of boils and hemorrhoids and really so many different ways that we can use this plant in our homes on the regular today. And it just so happens to be a very, very abundant plant, often considered a very, very invasive plant. So there is so much for us to talk about in this episode today, but I really want to start by diving into the historical uses of this plant. So, Chris, I'm hoping you can start us off with that.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Sure. This is a very old plant with a very long history. And depression actually came in relatively recently. So let's go back and see what they used to use this for. So we can start with the name. Anything with the word wart in the name means healing herb. And then St. John's was named after St. John the Baptist. So those of you who don't know too much about him, he lived during the time of Jesus as a teacher and a prophet, and there is a feast day in his honour, which is June 24th. And that's traditionally the best day to harvest this herb. And also within the herb, when you harvest it, when it's at peak, you can squeeze the flower and this red pigment comes out. That's really beautiful. And they say that it represents the blood of St. John's, who was actually beheaded. Not nice. But they also say the yellow flowers around the plant represent his halo as a saint. Going back before St. John, this plant was used. As Mel mentioned, it's a weed and it grows abundantly. And they used to use it back in the time of the ancient Greeks and Roman. And that's where the name, the Latin name Hypericon, comes from. There were a few different types of these, but the main one was Hypericon. And this was mentioned by Dioscorides, and he was the first one that had a written record of the use of this herb. And he described the flowers producing a bloody red juice when crushed. So clearly recognizable as St. John's Wall. So as you can imagine, with its red juice and blooming on the summer solstice, there is a lot of folklore about this plant. And as Mel mentioned earlier, they used to hang it over doors for protection. They used to use it for divination. And in some places, young women hung sprints over their bedrooms or put it under their pillows, and they hope to use it to dream of their future husbands. Romantic. I love it. And they also said it protected from witches and drove off demons, as Mel mentioned earlier. And there's an old English folk rhyme about this from medieval England. John's walked charm all the witches away, if gathered at midnight on the saints' holy day, and devils and witches have no power to harm those that do gather the plant for a charm. Rub the lintels and post with that red juicy flower. No thunder nor tempest will then have the power to hurt or to hinder your houses and bind, round your neck a charm of a similar kind.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

They say it's from medieval England in Organ. That's awesome. Where'd you dig that up from, Chris? I have to credit Dr. Christopher Hobbes with that poem. So I think it's obviously other people used it before then, but that's where I found it. So he mentioned it and it's just been passed forward. Love it. So that's the folklore about the herb. What do they actually use it for? Well, back then they used it for promoting urination and also bringing on menstruation. That's probably related to the doctrine of signatures and the colour and looking like blood.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

But also, yeah, also recurring fevers. And also way back then, this is 2,000 years ago, they mentioned use of it for sciatica. And they actually said the decoction of the seed taking over 40 days. And also there's a mention of using it for burns. So you'll notice there's no depression mentioned way back in old history. So, how about you, Mal? Do you have any historical pieces to add to that?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, a few of them. And I do want to just mention, which I guess we'll chat about a bit more, but the sciatica piece and how common that is still today. Like it's phenomenal for sciatica and for so many other amazing reasons. But historically, I do know that St. John's Wart was absolutely loved and praised by the Greeks and the Romans, specifically for its wound healing capabilities and the way that it helped with sore muscles, with bruising, with nerve pain, like that sciatica we were just talking about. I also know that in Jerusalem, the Knights of St. John's use the doctrine of signatures once again. So for anybody listening that's unfamiliar with the doctrine of signatures, it's just this concept of like treats like. And oftentimes you can see similarities in a plant that may have similarities to maybe a body system or fluids within the body and various things. And so that can kind of give people this sign or signature that it may help that body system. And in our minds with many people today, it may take a bit of creativity to understand and/or see the doctrine of signatures. But I do promise you that the more time you spend with plants and understanding how they work and being open to listening to them, the more you will actually see the doctrine of signatures at play throughout life. So if it sounds a little woo-woo and wonky to you, that's fine. Keep playing, keep learning, keep listening, right? So, anyways, the Knights of St. John's, they believe that the tiny little perforations that I talked about earlier that are in the leaves, which is one of the most defining characteristics of this plant, aside from the yellow flowers with the juicy, blood-like stuff coming out of the buds. You can look at the tiny leaves with these tiny perforations if you hold them up to the sky. And these knights of St. John's believe those to be wounds. So they use the plant for wound healing. They're punctures in the skin, which St. John's heart is still phenomenal for today. Native Americans, they would use it and still do to treat fevers, to deal with diarrhoea. They would use poultices in the cases of snake bites and other open wounds and sores. Some used it to increase fertility and also for that stagnant menstruation, which yes, goes right back to that doctrine of signatures. We've got that oozing, bloody, like looking beautiful hypericin coming out of the flower that truly resembles blood as well. So interesting how that all comes together.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And even in the name, speaking of the perforations in the leaf, the Latin name is Hypericum, which is from the ancient Greece, perforatum, which means the perforated leaf, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Looking through the history, we can see that it's about everything except depression. So wound healer, nerve pain, menstruation. So the first mention of it as something to do with depression was paracelsis in about 1500. And he recommended it for melancholy. So melancholy is a bit of a catchal phrase. It doesn't specifically mean depression, but it means everything like sadness, anxiety, despair. It can include delusions and agitation. But he also said it could be used as an amulet to protect against enchantments and apparitions, as well as using it for those things. So it was around that time when it started shifting from a wound herb to an emotional and nervous system herb. Of course, that doesn't mean all the wound healing went away because it's a phenomenal wound healer, but then they started bringing in other uses. So a century later, after Paracelsis, was Nicholas Culpepper, the amazing great herbalist. He said this one is governed by Leo and the sun. And you can see that with the big yellow flower, and also it comes out in the sun. And he said that it heals inward and outward. So inward and outward hurts and bruises. And he primarily used it for wounds, bruises, bleeding. He liked it to be boiled in wine and to use it for the inward injuries and bruises. And for externally, he made an ointment out of it. And he started mentioning making the oil. And externally, he said use it as an ointment to reduce swellings and to close wounds. He also said it was good internally for vomiting and spitting blood. That could be for the doctrine of signatures type thinking, but he did use it for that. He was a well-practised herbalist who did a lot of things in clinic and documented everything in his books. And he also said it was good for venomous bites and stings and difficulty urinating, which came up early during the Greek times with dioscopies. He mentioned that as well. And then finally, he said it could expel what he called collar or congealed blood from the stomach. So a lot to do with the blood there. And he also mentioned that the oil would work for old wounds as well as fresh.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I love learning about the ways that Culpepper and everybody before him used plants. I think it's absolutely fascinating. And love that he was using it for pains and bruises. As I mentioned earlier, that's one of the more common ways that people use it today, beyond depression. There's loads of flavonoids in St. John's wart and that red hypericine-rich gooey stuff. And that actually helps to stimulate generation of the capillaries and other tissues. And then that hyphen is also going to increase blood flow to the area, which is going to really help ease all of the bruising. And it is an incredible vulnerary, as Culpepper noticed, which I'm so curious how that process went for him in clinic. And, you know, without it being documented beforehand, like what an explorer he was with plant medicine. I think it is so, so darn cool. But yeah, it goes back to those flavonoids that are regenerating tissues, right? Because if we have punctured tissues, we need those skin cells regenerated to repair those old wounds. And I've been using it for decades myself in various salves that I would make, specifically for sore muscles. I also used it in my essential salve, which is a your typical first aid wound healing salve that's also great for bruising and things along those lines. And I have used it numerous times, topically and internally, for nerve pain and nerve damage to help ease the inflammation and the pain involved in things like rheumatism and osteoarthritis, other joint pain issues, also the pain from shingles or neuralgia, all of these things can just be phenomenal with St. John's Wart. I know that when I was pregnant with my daughter, I used it in a salve where I had St. John's Wart, Cayenne, Arnica, Comfrey. I had cannabis in there, some ginger, and some menthol for cooling as well. And it was amazing because I had like a short stint with Cysa. And once I used that salve on my lower back as a pregnant mama, it it was mind-blowing how effective it was.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Oh, that's funny. I did the same thing. I used it as well. It's my first line for nerve pain. And sciaticus is specific for that, but it just gets you like right down, going down the like the buttocks and down the thighs. It's like, oh no, St. John's was phenomenal. I think for pain, any kind of nerve pain topical um application for pain.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

It's a great herb to use. I totally agree. And if we move forward or back from where we are today, but for people and the eclectics, this wasn't this wasn't a major herb for them. And I think one of the reasons for that is because it's such a serious herb in the way that they used it. So they knew it worked really well, and they pretty much specifically used it as a as a painkiller for the spine. So nerve pain, nerve injury, anything to do with the spine, serious herb. So they didn't really use it for melancholy, even though it was a lot of melancholy in Victorian times. They used things more like lady slipper or pulsatilla. So St. John's wart wasn't used so much. They did mention that it's abundant in Europe and America and it's really annoying to farmers. So I think even back then it was a bit of a weird. Yeah. So it was definitely around. They said it was astringent, sedative, and diuretic were its main properties, and primarily, as mentioned, nerve pain, nerve injury, and also use in UTIs. Urinary tract is an astringent and pain, and also for diarrhea and dysentery. They said specifically about the spinal injuries, it was used to relieve the excruciating pain and punctures and lacerations of limbs. And the specific condition when they would use this remedy was throbbing of the whole body in nervous individuals without fever is when they would pretty much use it. So any kind of like serious injury or spinal cord injury or nerve injury is when they would bring this herb out. So they do slightly mention depression, and the words they use were nervous affections with depression and hysteria. But it was not a primary use of the herb. They did mention that it had to be used fresh, and the eclectics did mention that you can make the sun oil, or you put the fresh St. John's wart into the oil, put that out in the sun, and it will make a very lovely oil, which they would then use to make ointments. And also they would make tinctures out of it using the fresh herb again. So when it really got put on the map for depression, it was probably around the 1980s when studies started rolling out. So they probably went back and okay, this was mentioned for melancholy, we'll try testing it. And they did a lot of studies on it. And then the Germany's Commission E added it as being specifically able to help with depressive states. So that's what really put the herb on the map in the 1980s for being the depression herb. And also kind of pigeonholed it into that single use that everybody knows that. They say, Oh, St. John's well, that's for depression. But what about all the fabulous other uses herb that they used to use it for in history before that time?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Amen to that. Yes. As you opened up with like the the way that people will pigeonhole an herb. It's just a darn shame. And it's such a beautiful thing that we get to have podcasts like this to help open eyes to like, oh, St. John's Moore is more than just the depression herb. Like, I love how you brought up the astringency piece. So we know that that's going to be really helpful. Like if somebody has hemorrhoids, right? Because we want a little, you think about, you know, people go in and get the tux pads or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Well, the tux with the witch hazel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yes, yes. But you could use something like St. John's War and maybe a higher quality witch hazel as well. And it can be used really quite well for varicose veins, as it's going to strengthen and support the capillaries and rebuild those tissues, which is going to be really nice. It's also fantastic for anal fissures and vaginal tears, postpartum. Like if a mama's given birth and she tears, St. John's work could be a really, really powerful ally topically for that mama. And speaking of motherhood and birthing and newborns, it can also be really helpful in cases of mastitis. You could use a poultish, you could use an infused oil, you could use a tincture, right? And use it more like a lineman and place that on the breasts and help clear out that mastitis as well. And I just love that, yeah, it is annoying to the farmers. It is incredibly abundant. And I like to think about that with our weeds or our invasive plants that are really powerful medicine. They're just begging to be seen by more of us and used as medicine as if to say, hey, we are here for you. Like St. John's Ward is bright and vibrant and yellow and inviting, like the dandelion is, right? Both also very persistent and always coming back. So thinking about that. And I think it could be, you know, so helpful with that golden, sunny disposition. To help with cases of depression, right? We already know this because of the studies in the 80s that made people be like, oh yeah, herbs again. After the 70, 80 year stint of don't think about herbs, think about pills only. But St. John's Wart is really lovely for uplifting the mood and can really be great during the darker seasons of the month. So thinking about things like seasonal affective disorder, I love to use St. John's Wart with some lemon balm, which is also very specific there. Maybe I'll add in another herb, maybe it's Albizia, maybe it's something like Linden. Really depends on the person or what we have around or what's going on, but can be incredibly beneficial. And it also acts as a tropher restorative, specifically for those that are really exhausted and burnt out and fried, much like our favorite Milky Oat tops, right? Absolutely wonderful for supporting people that are just burnt. And this day and age, I think so many of us qualify, right? So many of us. It's also a really, really nice herb for children that are anxious or maybe they're dealing with hyperactivity. And this can be a really, really nice and supportive herb for those children. It's it's really nice. Said nice so many times, but there's also so many other reasons we might use St. John's wart. And I think that it really shines in the world's viral properties, right? Specifically shingles. I have had many clients with shingles that have benefited greatly with St. John's wart and a little bit of lemon balm and a little bit of cayenne, and it can work wonders.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Oh, I like St. John's war oil with lavender and geranium for shingles and cold sores. So the lavender kind of soothes and heals and the geranium antiviral, of course, the St. John's War antiviral and pain reliever. I think if you need something that is gonna heal, kick a virus, and stop nerve pain, then St. John's War is the go-to for something like cold sores. I carry this in my purse because I get horrible ones on my face, and this is what I do. And then I of course take capsules and take it internally for antiviral. So it's the first line herb. My theory on how it works is it loves the sun. So this grows in the sunshine and then it gathers up all the sun during the season, then it saves it up for the darker months. So in winter, when you need a bit of a lift or you need some sunshine in your life, then you can go grab the St. John's Mall and it brings like the summer months out again for seasonal affective disorder. It's great for that.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, I love it for that too. I also get cold sores and I really hate them. They're mortifying for me, they're embarrassing, they're painful, and it always comes about for me when I'm already really stressed, right? So my whole immune system is just like, sorry, lady, you are stressed, and I'm really gonna make you pay for it extra right now. And it's it's really quite rude. But St. John's wart, like right when I get that first tingle, I start taking copious amounts of St. John's Wart tincture as well as lemon balm tincture. And I will also place it right on top of that tingly spot to just like really, really target and get there. But I wanted to mention the other thing. Of course, I use several different herbs in this whole process, depending on where we're at with the healing process of it all. But something I have recently in the past couple of years discovered that nobody ever showed me before, you might really appreciate Chris and anybody else listening. Cottonwood bud honey. Oh. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. It I've never had anything be so powerful and effective. Like, yes, I'm attacking with the lemon balm and the St. John's wart. Absolutely. Maybe I'll bring in some plantain or yarrow. But the cottonwood bud honey really takes away the pain and brings about some moisture because that alcohol is really drying and it can crack things on that skin a little bit more. But I've just been truly blown away. It shortens the duration of the time and it really speeds up the ability for the healing process to happen. It's amazing. I absolutely do. So, do you make your own cotton bud honey? I do. So I live on the Sandy River in the foothills of Mount Hood, and I have an abundance of cottonwoods in my backyard. My partner hates them, though he knows that they're good medicine. He'll go and like gather sticks off the ground for me and be like, here you go. But I really hate these when they get all fluffy. So I have a lot. And I just take the buds and put them in honey and I leave them there forever, because to really strain that out is going to be more of a mess than it's worth. And the cottonwoods themselves and the honey both act as preservatives. So I've never had an issue with just leaving them in there. And then I'll just like I'll have a larger jar, but then I keep a smaller jar, like a really small jar of it on hand specifically for the cold source. So I don't accidentally contaminate anything else because there's so many other reasons I might want to use that cottonwood butt honey.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Oh, yum.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah. It is so young, too. That's yeah. That's the other piece. I'm like, mm, this is tasty topical medicine. It's so effective. Yeah. But yeah, I think that the antiviral properties of St. John's wart are remarkable. They're really, really impressive. And there's quite a few different studies out there, but it also acts as an antibacterial and it's got hyperforin in it, which is not hyper hypericum, but hyperforin. And it is a pretty potent antibacterial that has been shown to be quite effective against Streptococci and staphylococc bacteria as well. It's also able to fight fungal infections, as we talked about. It's also the astringent, it's going to help with those hemorrhoids, it's going to help with the varicose veins and with fissures. It's also really nice and soothing for sight. Which I love and have used numerous times, but it's also very funny because when taken internally, it can cause quite a bit of photosensitivity, especially for those with really fair skin that are already prone to being sunburned a lot. So photosensitivity, that's what it means. It means that when you are out in the sun, you are going to be far more likely to get a sunburn when you are taking St. John's War internally. So if you are a fair-skinned being, or maybe you, you know, somebody that is very young, if you are a nursing mother and you're using St. John's War, you really do want to be cautious and make sure that your infant is protected from the sun, whether that be lots of hats or blankets over them or what have you. So I think that is so important. And as we've talked about so many incredible ways that we can use this abundant plant to help us all, it's also important to talk about contraindications like the photosensitivity. But one that is really important to talk about is the way that it can interfere with various medications. It actually lowers the bio of quite a few pharmaceutical medications. So if you are thinking about taking St. John's wart, it's really important that you're working with your healthcare practitioner to make sure that it's not contraindicated because what's happening is the liver is responsible for breaking down different medications and herbs within the body, among about 500 other jobs that the liver is responsible for. But there is a particular enzyme, it's the 3A4, and it breaks down a lot of the medications in the body. And St. John's word actually tells the liver to produce more of that enzyme than it normally would. So it basically causes those medications to be pushed out before they have the opportunity to do the work that they're intended to do in your body. And then there's a similar action happening with protein, which is basically like a transporter for these drugs to get them out of your system. And the St. John's wart also revs up the production of that, which is going to force those drugs out of the body before they can do their work. So it's going to make those pharmaceuticals, which can be really, really important for a lot of people, less than effective. Anyways, I know that's kind of heavy, but it's really important to consider. A lot of people love to get in the world of herbs and you're hearing, oh my gosh, it can heal my depression. And, you know, there are quite a few antidepressant medications that it is contraindicated with. And you do really need to be mindful of that. Natural does not always mean safe. And with that, it's not that St. John's wart is dangerous or toxic on its own. It's that it's preventing the ability for the other drugs to do what they need to do for you. So just work with your healthcare practitioner if you are on medications and make sure that these herbs are right for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah. And speaking of the photosensitivity, I know in New Zealand, they did not like this herb at all because the sheep and the cows were eating it and they were becoming photosensitive to the sun as well. So it's considered to be quite an obnoxious weed in many countries. So Australia, New Zealand, Europe, I think even South Africa, obviously in America. And the bizarre thing about this is we actually tried to grow it on the farm. So we put rows of herbs down and it didn't grow at all. It just wants to grow where it wants to grow. So it's actually quite hard to cultivate. It's wild and abundant. You see it everywhere in Oregon. But if you collect it, make sure you collect it from a clean place because it likes to grow by the roadside, anywhere sunny. So I wouldn't get it from there. And also another thing is it has a bug here in Oregon. And it's like this shiny, kind of goldy black little beetle. Yeah. It loves to eat St. John's War. That is actually an introduced bug. So we brought it here from Australia. And the funny thing was, I think this was back in about 1945 or the 1940s. Australia had a problem with St. John's War everywhere. So they brought this bug into Australia and then it was so successful it just started eating all the St. John's War. So here in Oregon or here in the States, we got it from Australia and brought it here and it started eating, it just eradicated so much St. John's War. I think they didn't really think about the herbalists back then, because the herbalists can go out and collect it, cut down the tops and gather like lots of the plant. But really the farmers don't like this plant because of the photosensitivity it causes in their livestock.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah, I think that's where it was discovered is by the cows and the sheep eating it, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:06

And I think the New Zealand sheep were getting sunburned. Like as you know, I don't know about now. I left New Zealand a while ago, but yeah, we used to have when I lived there, I think we've got five million people now, but back in the day it was like three million people and 20 million. No, sorry, three million people and six million sheep.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Getting sunburned because I was eating all the St. John's water in the field.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

That's so funny. I love that. That's really interesting. I didn't know that about the beetle, but I've definitely seen that bug that you describe.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And if you squash the bug, the red comes out. I mean, obviously, I don't like the bugs that are introduced. I want my St. John's water. I don't want the bugs all over it. And if you squash it, you can see all the hypericine coming out. That's weird. So when you look at the plant, if you see a shiny beetle on it, you'll know that's the bug. It's pretty, pretty prolific here in Oregon. I've seen them on a plant on the plants a lot. And I always did wonder when we planted the St. John's water if the bug had something to do with it. But I have had other people say that it is quite difficult to cultivate. But we're very mindful of the bugs. We don't want bugs in the product.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Right, of course.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

You can shake it off. You can if you find it, but they will eat everything. They'll eat the flowers down, the leaves down, just leave the stems. So they can decimate the plants. Wow. And you'll find multiple beetles on the on the plant. So just be a bit careful of that.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Huh. That's really interesting that you mentioned that because I've, like I said, I've seen that beetle a lot and had no idea that it was an invasive bug and very specific to St. John's Wart. So now I will be much more mindful.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, I think it's a biological control, and it's called the Klamath Beetle or the Klamath bug, but introduced specifically for the purpose of controlling St. John's wart.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Wow. I wonder what kind of adverse effects it's going to happen or have later on in life.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

There's always something. I mean, the settlers brought St. John's water and it's not native here, and it wasn't native in Australia and New Zealand either. So that had a big impact because it outcompeted the native plants. But yeah, there's always something that goes wrong. I was actually just reading, this is a little bit off topic, but I was just reading that olive trees abandon Arizona because uh when people plant nursery trees or just plant like ornamental trees, they want the males because the males grow bigger, the females are producing the fruit, so they're always smaller and they're kind of messy, they drop the fruit everywhere. So they plant males everywhere, and the males just spew out this pollen and it causes the allergies. And what that pollen actually is, it's plant sperm. So the male trees, that plant sperm everywhere, causing all these allergies because we're only planting the male trees. So they've now banned planting ornamental olive trees in Arizona. And then you think about all the allergies caused by trees here, it's because the males just want to do their thing, throw it out. So all the analogies that can come off of this humans interfering and dictating what gets planted.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

I love that. That is hilarious. That is so funny. The other thing that I love that you mentioned kind of early and talking about how it grows is what a rebel child it is. And being a girl of the 90s, I think of a particular Rage Against the Machine song that I'm not going to say the lyrics to on this podcast. But St. John's Ward is definitely that rebel that's like, I'm not gonna do what you tell me. And I'm gonna grow my way wherever I want to. And for me, I really admire this plant because of that. Because I think that's a lot of my personality. So St. John's Ward, I really relate to you. I think I'm actually gonna be going out to gather some tomorrow. And I think I'll think about that beetle a lot and keep my eyes peeled for it, and then also think about what a rebel this plant is. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

I think you can call it and I always wait for St. John's Wort to come to me if I move or something like that. It's like, yeah, St. John's Wort will find me and it'll come and it'll start growing, and I will look after it. And yeah, this is this is one you really need to harvest fresh as well. It loses potency pretty quickly. Here's my extract because it's St. John's Fort season here. I don't know if you can see that, but it's that beautiful red colour. And that's like fresh plant dropped into alcohol, or in our case, we drop it into the freeze dryers and it preserves it. If you let it dry and then you drop it in alcohol like that, it's gonna be like lukewarm brown, if anything, because it it starts losing its potency pretty quickly. Even the eclectics knew that, like a hundred years ago. So you just go out and you harvest it, the flowering tops. It gets up to be about three feet high, two, three feet high, and you just cut the flowering tops off around St. John's Day, June 24th. But that of course depends on the elevation, a little bit earlier, a little bit later, but just around summer.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah, I'm always so grateful that I live in a little bit higher elevation because you know I I see the St. John's award coming out in the city, or people talk about St. John's Day, and I'm like, yay, I've got like three weeks.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

It's a fleeting season. And then as it gets later in the season, you might see it. But then if you squeeze that flower, it's not going to have the hypericine in it and it's gonna be dry and it's gonna be hard to get out. So that's really when you can tell it's good to use. Squeeze it. Does it put the red on your fingers? If so, use it. And if you getting St. John's wart supplements, I think you have to be careful. Like, is it made with fresh or dry herb? What colour is that tincture? Like freeze-dried or is it whole? Or what they sometimes do is they take a standardized extract, they just take the hypericin and they reduce it and concentrate it, and then it's kind of closer to a drug model. I always think nature Mother Nature knows best and she knows what she's doing. And she puts herbs out there already perfect, just for us to use, and then we should get the whole herb uh fresh if you can. You can just go out and if you eat it, it's kind of lemony tasting. Or if you just get it, you put it in the freeze-dryers and freeze dryer while it's fresh, it just preserves everything and the right ratios.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Just should be. Yeah, I think that point that you just made of like Mother Nature knows best, she uh knows what she's doing with these plants. These plants are intelligent, right? We don't have to extract just certain constituents from it. We can use that whole plant in beautiful ways. And that red color is so important. I remember I rarely ever go on Etsy to see other people's products, but when I was in the early days of my own product line, I would see people selling on Etsy St. John's ward oil, and it would show a picture of their oil, and it's like clear to golden. And I'm like, what? What are you trying to make, my friend? I will never buy your St. John's ward oil because I know what it's supposed to look like, and it's definitely not that. It's just that deep, deep, deep reddish, purplish almost. And you would never guess that would come from such a lovely golden flower. And that's like when I'm out harvesting them. If the flowers, if there are any flowers on those tops that have started to wilt or die off, I usually am like, oh, that's past, it's prime. Unless I can get those buds and squeeze them and they, yeah, like you said, ooze out all of that good, beautiful hypericin-rich redness, that's the way to go. But if you're not getting fresh St. John's wart, it's amazing how much all of the beneficial constituents just are depleted. So if you are missing the very short window in which you can harvest St. John's wart, or you don't have a place to harvest St. John's wart, or the only place you know is on the side of the highway. You don't want the stuff on the side of the highway, please. But you do want to check out Eclectic Herb because we do freshly freeze dry our St. John's wart. We also have an alcohol-based extract if you prefer tinctures. That we have that as well. That has also been tinctured while fresh, like Chris showed in the video. Very, very red. Though I believe what you showed in the video is your personal St. John's Wart.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

This is my personal St. John's Works at St. John's Walt season. I've also put some on my personal freeze dryer, and it looks just like the fresh flower. It's beautiful, very different from dried. And we have tested the freeze dried, it's still active and potent, just like the fresh plant. So it is a great way to preserve it and the extract and the oil. Fun to make, but if you're gonna make it, unfortunately, you have to get the fresh plant.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Yeah, absolutely. Makes a world of difference. I think that might be what those Etsy sellers were doing is like using a St. John's wart dried plant that they had bought from some air-dried company and tried to put it in oil and be like, I did it. No, you didn't. Sorry. Sorry to be mean. But it's really, it does make a difference in how you extract the medicinal constituents of a plant and how well they're going to work for you and your body. So we will definitely drop a link to the St. John's Wort freeze-dried capsules made with fresh St. John's wort from eclectic herb. We will also drop a link to the St. John's Wort extract, also made with the fresh herbs, so that you know you are getting the maximum amount of those beneficial compounds. So those will be linked in the show notes or down at the bottom of this YouTube video, depending on where you're watching or hearing this episode. And we would love to hear your thoughts on St. John's Wart. Where you team, it's antidepression, or you team like, holy cow, it does so much more. Let us know. Listening to the show. Thanks everybody. See you at the next episode. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Eclectic Herbal Wisdom. We are so grateful you spent your time with us. And if you enjoyed this episode, we'd love it if you share it with a friend who might appreciate it as well. And if you have a moment, leaving us a review really helps other plant lovers to find the show.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

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SPEAKER_01 45:18

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SPEAKER_00 45:26

Before you go, a quick reminder. Everything we share on this podcast is for educational purposes only. We are here to inspire and inform that this isn't medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare practitioner before studying any new herbal protocol, especially if you're pregnant, nursing, or taking medications. Thanks again for tuning into the show. Until next time, may the plants guide you.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Take care.